User talk:DavidCary

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SOPA

I have put a notice about sopa ... on the main page, if you feel it needs discussion contact me

--russ_hensel 16:11, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Maximum Power Point Trackers Mar 12, 2012

I looked around on wind turbine boards and did not find a MPPT tracker that would suit my need. So I designed my own and I got the circuit board in last week. I saw your website and this other most recent MPPT discussion, after I started my design: http://www.vawts.net/t45173979/mppt-specs/ http://www.vawts.net/t47246927/steves-controller-working-wow/ I had some questions and comments in that long thread.

Mine is based on an IC with some microprocessor control: http://www.linear.com/product/LTC3703 I hope you don't mind if I post it under yours if mine works. It is a boost MPPT. Steve did a buck MPPT, which won't work for my generator. I have not studied your circuit closely yet. I read that you are thinking surface mount parts are not liked by hobbiests. I am just getting into them. This is my first circuit with them. I have a hunch that I will grow to like them because there are no holes to drill and smaller boards are nice. Let's see if I have good soldering technique. I bought an air heat gun too.

I just read your other site and posted it on VAWTS.net. I think it is a very interesting idea since it can do buck or boost. http://thesolarpowerexpert.com/a-diy-dual-voltage-converter-turning-the-solar-charge-controller-circuit-on-its-head/

--Definitionofis

Thank you for giving me the link to the vawts.net discussion. Fascinating. Feel free to post your design on maximum power point tracker if you don't want to create a new page for it. I think that Chris at thesolarpowerexpert is pretty insightful, so I am flattered that you seem to confuse him with me. (I'm a little confused myself as to whether that Chris is the same as the Chris who developed A Solar Panel Power Point Tracker). --DavidCary 01:14, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Haha. I skimmed through too many links to links to links. I am still confused as I write this. I'll sort it out later.

--Definitionofis

How to add schematic file upload to this website Feb 19, May 8, 2012

History diff explains a lot about why this could work. The interface concept of editing everywhere was so bizarre, I didn't know what to do. I got bold after I figured the place is a ghost town when a note I left went unanswered for a week. This site comes up often in my searches. I just could not understand it. I get it now, sort of.

How do I upload a .sch file? The picture types limit is unreasonable on an electronics board.

Regards, Definitionofis --Definitionofis 15:42, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that the OpenCircuits.com wiki really *should* support uploading original, editable schematics files -- not just images that *look* like schematics but are uneditable. Alas, I'm a little fuzzy on how to enable that functionality. --DavidCary 01:14, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

MAY 8, 2012 Definitionofis: I found instructions for adding more file upload extension types, other than just png and jpg. (By the way, I tried to upload images just now and I got an error message. I will skip it for now. I am out of time.) I need .sch .brd .net .lib .emp .mod for KiCAD.

Here are the instructions: [1] and an excerpt from the bottom of that page:


Configuring file types

You can add $wgFileExtensions in LocalSettings.php to allow uploads of other desired file types. For example, you can change the $wgFileExtensions line to look something like

$wgFileExtensions = array('png','gif','jpg','jpeg','doc','xls','mpp','pdf','ppt','tiff','bmp','docx', 'xlsx', 'pptx','ps','odt','ods','odp','odg');

or

$wgFileExtensions = array_merge($wgFileExtensions, array('doc', 'xls', 'mpp', 'pdf','ppt','xlsx','jpg','tiff','odt','odg','ods','odp'));

or

# Add new types to the existing list from DefaultSettings.php
$wgFileExtensions[] = 'doc';
$wgFileExtensions[] = 'xls';
$wgFileExtensions[] = 'pdf';
$wgFileExtensions[] = 'mpp';
$wgFileExtensions[] = 'odt';
$wgFileExtensions[] = 'ods';

However, certain file extensions are blacklisted ($wgFileBlacklist) and cannot be uploaded even if added to $wgFileExtensions. To upload files with blacklisted extensions, you must modify the blacklist. For instance, to allow users to upload executables:

$wgFileExtensions[] = 'exe'; $wgFileBlacklist = array_diff( $wgFileBlacklist, array ('exe') );

no captcha?

Could you please let me bypass the captchas? I would like to categorize approx. 200 articles, but it would be very tedious with the captcha. (PS: there is also some answer on my disc. page.) --Glenndk 17:22, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

from russ_hensel Mar 2011

Note new page on hacker spaces off main page, also thinking of swapping out the old component page, see link to new one at top of old page. Let me know what you think if you have an opinion on the changes. -- russ_hensel

A place where people do cool and amazing things sounds wonderful -- I'd like to support that.

But what would I write on the HackerSpaces page -- other than "Go see http://hackerspaces.org/ ", which is already mentioned on that page -- that wouldn't be better posted on that other wiki? --DavidCary 01:06, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

from russ_hensel Jan 21 09

I have been thinking about how to get more traffic at open circuits. So far:

  • Post links to it on forums, these are usually on topic for the forum, not just ads.
  • Started a sub wiki for SourceBoost C ( much of which is just a collection of stuff I was doing here anyway ) If this seems to commercial, let me know and we can see if there is a better way to do it. I think it fits the site well however.
  • When I link to sites now I often send an email letting them know and inviting them to contribute, not too much has come of this yet, but more time will tell.
  • Should we consider adding the site to some web rings? If we think this is a good idea what process should we use to discuss and keep the process under control.

Russ

from joshua w.

The pceeg project has become a alpha release now. I now have eagle cad files schematics and boards for all three boards. I have the pcb from sparkfun in my hand. I will be ordering parts for the microcontroler printed circuit board this weekend to test it out. Take a look at it it has changed a lot. I look forward to your comments I would like help on this project.

from russ hensel

I am making a page just for the spam topic How Should We Deal With Spam and will move all the discussion here to their if you do not object. Then will link in a few other places as well. Ok.

That sounds great. I've just finished moving all the spam-related discussion on this "User talk:DavidCary" page to the spam page, but I'm sure there are other similar discussions scattered all over the place. I hope we will be able to reap the advantages of consolidate information. --DavidCary 12:33, 9 April 2008 (PDT)

question about russ_hensel_test

from my talk page:

russ_hensel_test as with a few other pages that should be linked to only from my personal page were indeed tests, some should have already been deleted. At the time I had no idea how to move them. I will try to leave less trash behind.

Russ

No worries. It's easy enough to fix.

I just wanted to check in and see what the scoop was before plunging in and deleting a page that *looks* redundant, but perhaps is merely in the middle of some complex transformation. --DavidCary 21:29, 14 February 2008 (PST)

Take a look at.....

russ_hensel_test

take a look at a page I am working on for PIC projects ( all external ) It clearly has a ways to go, but then I am planning to link it in somewhere public.

The page is supposed to have a fairly clean look for browsing, and some structure for searching.

I am still struggling with getting the formatting down right. Is there a test for what is open that we should be applying?

Let me know your thoughts.

russ_hensel

Looking good. Thank you. The "Editing help" link (just below the "Summary" bar that shows up after you start editing a page) *ought* to have tips on formatting. Maybe next month :-).
I made a few minor tweaks that I *thought* made it look better -- hit that "undo" button if I've only messed things up.
For open hardware, I'm using the consensus definition at Wikipedia:open source hardware. If they've posted the schematics and firmware online, and indicated that anyone can use the design information -- perhaps released under GPL, Creative Commons, or public domain -- then it's open hardware.


Armus board

Hi! Very glad at least one guy did show some enthousiasm about the project! Currently, as the project was left (and will probably stay....): Hardware is all good. The board with gerbers can be sent to most major Fab House and you will receive a functionnal design. Proto1 was tested and around 5 glitches have been found and corrected for Proto2, wich was never tested but should be 100% functionnal.

The Firmware of the 4 DSPics is symetrical, and is "complete". It interface to Servos and DCs. The input encoder, if I recall, is not done, but the code is there and all C, so it should be easy to just copy-paste a snippet from somewhere else into the project. The Firmware for the multi-IO PIC18 is complete, and you will be able to play with all IO. The Drivers to communicate to the PIC and DSPIC from the kernel is done and documented. Ah, yeah, we have drivers for Ethernet/CAN/Sound. We also have a complete compiled kernel ready to load onto the board with various "demonstration" mode.

Most of the work left is polishing here and there, as the firmware/driver part was done is haste. Most of the things work 100%, and will need no touch, but some functions (like the Quadrature encoders) are plain missing.

The part where more work is to be done is on the Integrated Devellopment Environment (IDE). Shure, you can use KDevellopp, Eclipse, or any cross compiler out there. You could even download some dev.boards' software and load it onto ARMUS and compile natively from there. We had in mind (read the article) to creat a simple and easy IDE for 1st year undergrads, so maybe it's not necessary for you :P

If you want the =WHOLE= project CVS for you to enjoy, I have it and could send it to you trough FTP or any other way you prefer. I guess I could also just mail a DVD. It weights around 700MB, and there is ton of french comment and files (as the team, in Quebec, was native french) but I could translate any part you feel is critical for specific applications.

If you want to work on this "on your own", most of the board is based on atmel's AT91RM9200EK and AT91RM9200DK . Their demonstration Kernels should run as-is with the same procedure as Atmel's.

Just to say: what do you plan to use the board for? Thanks for your interest! -Jerome Marchand

Wow. This is too cool to stick on a shelf a let it gather dust. I want to see projects like this "ratchet forward". I want to allow people to build off last year's work rather than starting all over again from scratch -- so in a few years we can finish amazingly cool projects that are far too complicated for one team to finish in a year.

I think this ARMUS Embedded Linux Board might be perfect for a CNC machine. The LinuxCNC software runs on Linux, so it ought to run on this Linux board. And the DSPics should be able to drive the power transistors that run the motors on the CNC machine, and track the position of the routing head.

And not just a single CNC machine -- a series of open-source CNC machine designs. Designs that anyone can build, improve, and then share those improvements with the next builder.

Yes, please do send me the project files. These are all "public domain" or "creative commons" or "open source", with no warranty, right?

Do you think that perhaps http://SourceForge.net/ or GNU Savannah might be a more appropriate place to host this software than Opencircuits?

Alas, I am embarrassed to admit that I barely speak 5 words of the lingua franca, the French language.

--DavidCary 19:16, 3 November 2007 (PDT)

Programmable Chip EEG

Why don't you help finish my programmable chip eeg project and then use what you learned and the results to then create your own project. Programmers like to reuse working modulas instead of reinventing the wheel.

The pceeg has gone through a major revision streamlining its design and I am working on the father board a digital computing board for the project. I will be cleaning up the page.

Thank you. I hope the Programmable Chip EEG project becomes wildly successful. --DavidCary 10:01, 19 July 2007 (PDT)

I am getting to be in the alpha release check it all out at the sourceforge page and the open circuits wiki.

a talk through Wiki Howto

Hi DavidCary
Thank you very much you create this wiki to let us to share electronic projects.
I want to merge the "RS232 Dev Board" and "RS232 RS485 USB Converter Board", so want to discuss to the author, Tkb, of "RS232 Dev Board". However, i cannot find out the talk page like i talk to you by this way. Can you point me how to do it?
thanks
yan

If you have a question or comment specifically about the "RS232 Dev Board", please leave a comment on the RS232 Dev Board page or its "discussion" page. You can click on "User talk:Tkb" to leave a note on Tkb's user talk page. Since there are more people watching the "RS232 Dev Board" page than Tkb's page, you'll probably get a quicker response if you post to the "RS232 Dev Board" page than to Tkb's page. --DavidCary 20:00, 29 December 2006 (PST)


Chazegh created this "Open Circuits wiki". I am flattered that you think I had something to do with it. But since Chazegh seems to be too busy to spend much time here, it's up to you and I (and whoever else we can recruit) to create content here. --DavidCary 21:08, 29 December 2006 (PST)

5.7.2007 Joe Silva: Hi David, great site! ...


Aloha David, Roger here, I'm still puzzeled as to how to create a new article. I uploaded an image file for the 723 regulator (my article subject). This went into an "Image File page" automatically, OK. I added it to the Voltage Regulators section of Components/Integrated Circuits, OK. But I couldn't figure out how to make a document like there is for LT1528 OO. I put the info I have into the discussion page for the image, but that is only a temporary solution.

How does one create a new article page that isn't a "talk" page for something else? Beside the info on the IC, I have a couple of documents that are in-depth on using the device. These should be near each other as well as near the info document above. How would I go about setting up a "723" sub-chapter of "Integrated Circuits"? I guess that's as clear as I can make the question.

I would also like to suggest a modification to the linkage. I'm reading the synopsis on the LT1528, I want to find oout more, so I click on the image, but instead of taking me to an in-depth article, it takes me to the image file page. There I have to look at the Links to find the article (which is only identified as LT1528). I'd like to be taken to the article instead of the image. Take me to the image only if there is no article. Of course this may be more difficult to make happen--I don't know how the site is structured. My web programming is very basic. Still, I think this makes sense from a user's POV.

Thanks in Advance, RAF 17:26, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

Aloha, Roger. You're doing great.

I agree that it would be nice if clicking on the picture of the LT1528 took you directly to the article about the LT1528. I don't know how to fix it.

Do you see the "Help" link in the navigation bar on the left side of every page? I think the page it brings up needs a few more tips. But I want to keep it short and simple. If I explained every detail, it would become a bloated 100-page document that nobody would read.

There are already far too many bloated 100-page documents about electronics.

I hope that you, dear reader, and other volunteers will make Open Circuits into a place where people can learn to do amazing things. A place that avoids forcing people to learn 100 irrelevant details before learning the one thing they need to know before they get back to building their robot (or whatever). A place that never makes people throw away good ideas, because we never confuse people into believing that it would be far more complicated and expensive to build than it really is.

p.s.: Picking the name of a page is a bit of an art. Since we want to refer to a page a lot, that's easier when the name is very short. People new to wiki always pick names that are too long, or have too many capital letters. Fortunately, it's very simple to rename pages. You rename pages by clicking on the incorrectly-named "Move this page" button. (I don't know how to fix that, either). --DavidCary 10:15, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

making links

Speaking of linkage, making links is one of the most important parts of this wiki.

Whenever you find one article mentioning some other article, you can click on that word to get more detail.

If that word is not already clickable (underlined and colored), please make it clickable. To make a word clickable, hit the "edit" button at the top of the page. Then add double brackets "[[" and "]]" around that word. (Some people recommend only making the first mention of that word clickable).

The cheatsheet ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet ) calls this an "internal link".

Here's the trick: you can add those brackets to any word, making it into a link. Some of those links will go to pages that don't exist yet.

What happens when you click on one of those links to a page that doesn't exist yet?

I'm not going to tell you what happens. Go find out for yourself. You can practice in the meta:Sandbox.

--DavidCary 10:15, 23 May 2007 (PDT)


Aloha David, Roger again; I want to thank you for the info and hints. I'm catching on. I got my component description linked to the caption under the image on the Components/Voltage Regulators page. And I created a "New Article" which I then "moved" to the title of my article. And my article has a link to the description and that has a link to the article, so I'm getting the hang of it. I have several schematics and PC artwork images to upload and link to my article, plus a second article I want to publish (I didn't write it, but I've been unable to find it on the internet--I have a xeroxed copy from 1986 or so and that is the only existing one as far as I know). That article also has several images that go along with it. I wondered about the feasability of uploading a .pdf file (I made one of it) to this site. Would that work? Should I even try? I don't want to screw anything up, but wouldn't that be a lovely thing if we could upload .pdf files? Just a thought.

Again, Thanks very much, I've made some progress.

RAF 19:48, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Aloha, Roger. You are welcome. Have you tried creating a link to an article that doesn't exist yet, just to see what happens when you click on that link? For example, the switching regulator page that I'm going to start in a few days.

I don't know about this article that you didn't write. If the original author wants people to post it widely, and doesn't mind us editing it, then great, let's post it (and give correct attribution). But some writers go a little crazy when they see that someone random stranger has copied their stuff and posted it to the internet. (That's why there's that "DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION!" note at the bottom of each Edit page).

I wouldn't mind you posting a .pdf file (that you wrote) temporarily. It's better than nothing. But I would expect someone to eventually convert it to text-and-images. That makes it much easier for the next person to improve the it.

Thank you again for adding useful information to Open Circuits. I hope you won't mind people "improving" the things you post here.

--DavidCary 21:26, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Aloha David, Sorry for the delay, I had a loonng job and then our cable modem failed. At least they swapped us a new one free (hooray RoadRunner). But I want to explain the article: "The Many-Talented 723" by Glenn Prescott. I came across this as a xerox copy sometime around 1985. It was evidently published in a magazine for radio enthusiasts--there are some ads on the last page for radio gear. But the name of the magazine isn't on any of the pages. I Googled for the article and got no returns. I think it is a very good article as far as describing the IC and how to use it. It helped me when I was a beginner, so I want to share it. However, I don't want anyone to get into trouble over it. I just did another search on Google and all the returns refer to my mention of it here on Open Circuits. Like I said, this is a copy that I have, no clue as to the magazine that published it, no copyright date, no nothin'. But I will leave it to your judgement if it is a risk. I still have my own article to get uploaded along with images. I will concentrate on getting mine done before doing anything with the copied article.

RAF 20:27, 26 May 2007 (PDT)

Unless the author has given permission to publish it, I think a better idea would be to write your own article, citing the one you're talking about further details. Ideas are not copyright, but the expression of them (i.e. the text of the article) is, or so I understand. Autarch 10:22, 13 June 2007 (PDT)

spammers

moved to spam

OpenCircuits Guideline

Here is a rewritten guidline as per your request. It may need some polishing:

... moved to We love volunteers ...

User_talk:Freqmax

Start the page Guideline ..?

I think that's great. We might want a "guideline" page someday, but for now I'm going to stick it over into "We love volunteers". --DavidCary 00:44, 3 August 2007 (PDT)

Delete object

Can you delete this? Freqmax 05:50, 31 July 2007 (PDT)

I see that Image:Geda_pcb_print_layout.png is currently in use on page GEDA Quickstart. Why would I want to delete an image that is currently in use? --DavidCary 13:01, 11 September 2008 (PDT)

Spam

moved to spam

Thanks

David, you left a comment on my dead blog way back in Jan about this and other Open Circuit wikis. Thanks!!!

I will see what I can contribute and learn here. --SamRose 06:53, 9 May 2008 (PDT)

Basic Circuits Page

I'd like to add some RF circuits to the Basic Circuits page. It seems to me pointful to break each entry out into it's own page. Is it alright if I do this? --Wackyvorlon 15:01, 19 May 2008 (PDT)

Sure, go ahead and add RF circuits anywhere. This is a wiki -- if we later decide to re-organize RF circuits elsewhere, that's easy enough to do. --DavidCary 19:48, 20 May 2008 (PDT)

Supporting More Image Type

Currently open circuit supports png, gif, jpg, jpeg formats. Is it possible to support svg as well? --Tcwden 04:51, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I see that the Mediawiki software we use can support SVG with a bit of setup. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/SVG . --DavidCary 05:15, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. I think SVG is useful graphics format for our discussion because, being in vector format, it is more convenient to edit and resize if needed.--Tcwden 01:40, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Baudline Free Software

On the Open Circuits oscilloscope page, I don't understand why you took "baudline" out of the "open source" section. Anyone can buy the source code with a "GPL source code license" at http://www.baudline.com/source_code.html . You have read what our Main Page says about "Selling Free Software", right? GPL is open source, right? --DavidCary 03:16, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I only read the license for the free download. Come to think of it, however, "The source code is expensive and it is intended for qualified corporate or institutional buyers" seems like a big deterrent to any hobbyist getting their hands on the source any time soon. While the software is technically GPL, it seems almost pointless to list it as such. I'm probably not going to modify it more than I've done though (listed it twice).

Cov 20:36, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I personally am more interested in the the "open-source freedom vs closed source" distinction than in the "zero money download vs pay money to download" distinction.
Alas, as Richard M. Stallman pointed out, there seems to be confusion around the word "free".
Yes, "source code is expensive" is a big deterrent to hobbyists.
Perhaps putting things in the technically correct category is "pointless". But if so, why bother using a category if it's not useful to our readers?
The "PC Oscilloscopes" category looks even less useful, since (currently) it appears that every o'scope on entire the oscilloscope page seems to be in that category. (Is that just a formatting glitch?)
Would different categories -- or no categories at all -- be more useful to our readers? --DavidCary 16:17, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
* I too care more about libre than gratis.
* I don't think I really put my finger on why it seemed wrongly categorized before but to me it's confusing to link to a piece of software's homepage, where the only downloadable version is non-free and say it is free software without reservation. The way it is now clears that up I think.
* Oops, I must have not been paying attention to the level of =heading= that was being used. Fixed the category mix-up.
Cov 21:10, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Great. Thank you for fixing it up so oscilloscope is (as far as I can tell) both accurate and useful to our readers. --DavidCary 05:18, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi. I don't agree. I'm a simple free software user. The oscilloscope page is not accurate in my opinion. I read your discussion, studied the baudline web site, studied the pages on gnu.org web site about free software and specificaly Selling Free Software.
I quote here, from the latter page, the two first paragraphs of the last section titled "High or low fees, and the GNU GPL" on this page in the english version ("Updated: $Date: 2012/06/10 08:06:17") : "Except for one special situation, the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) has no requirements about how much you can charge for distributing a copy of free software. You can charge nothing, a penny, a dollar, or a billion dollars. It's up to you, and the marketplace, so don't complain to us if nobody wants to pay a billion dollars for a copy. The one exception is in the case where binaries are distributed without the corresponding complete source code. Those who do this are required by the GNU GPL to provide source code on subsequent request. Without a limit on the fee for the source code, they would be able set a fee too large for anyone to pay—such as a billion dollars—and thus pretend to release source code while in truth concealing it. So in this case we have to limit the fee for source in order to ensure the user's freedom. In ordinary situations, however, there is no such justification for limiting distribution fees, so we do not limit them".
in the case of the software called "baudline", the source code is not available for everyone because of its price (unknown but "expensive") AND because of the restriction to those being acceptable as clients of the source code, as we can read on the baudline page titled "source code" : "it is intended for qualified corporate or institutional buyers".
I searched for web sites redistributing the boadline source code and found nothing.
Thus, the user's freedom of being able to read the source code is not given, as far as I can see, and I condider that the pretention to apply the GPL licence is abusive.
Thank you to let me modify this page and express my opinion.

David: An Interesting Comment you made

If you please to continue…

"I agree that you're not going to get worthwhile amounts of power out of this all by itself. But it's a bit misleading to say "nothing" when the graph clearly is non-zero with "node 4 grounded" -- it looks like a voltage doubler. – davidcary Dec 30 '10 at 17:02"

You made this comment about a circuit that has been dubbed as being "BOGUS". I thought it to be very interesting, as I have recently built and tested several of the modules. In the test I have made, I find the circuit to be an anomaly. IT is not normal. it reacts differently in direct sunlight than in shade. It reacts to sound, and pressure. All of the scale of said reactions are very, very small, however, readable, and most interestingly reproducible. it also reads a .02 Milli-amps on the voltmeter. Just sitting there.

I found it interesting that your comment supports the theory that the circuit needs to be connected to a very large load, or at least a very "active resistance" to affect and or allow a flow of current.

Please continue with this talk if you are able. I am very concerned about what we may discover. thank you

lighthousevision@comcast.net

Uploading schematic files

You said this 1.5 years ago. I just saw it a week ago. haha

You:

   "Thank you for drawing this problem to my attention. 
   I edited the "$wgFileExtensions" array to allow schematic file extensions. 
   Please let me know -- did that fix it? 
   For a (relatively) faster reponse, please leave a public message on my talk page or a private message using my talk page's "E-mail this user" link. 
   Thank you. --DavidCary (talk) 10:09, 27 October 2014 (PDT) "

Me: User_talk:Definitionofis says:

I tried to find the schematic but then I see KiCAD has changed file formats. I will let you know after I upgrade the schematic and the board layout file. I hope you added both extensions; schematic and board layout. I forget how KiCAD works. I think it has two file extensions. (Edit, Apr 12,2016: I see we discussed all of these: ".sch .brd .net .lib .emp .mod for KiCAD.". So I am sure you added them all and I will upload them all for my schematic, soon, and see if it works.)

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